Curse

Lady Lozza · Apr 23, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

After monks (and sometimes even before) a denial mesmer's favourite target is a gale warrior. Gale warriors are built to try to stop monks kiting, because they are using energy related skills to do so it is an easy job to stop them chasing your monks. Your focus will not save you from a denial mesmer. Your armour wil not save you from a denial mesmer. Nor will either save you from a necromancer, obsidian spike, or a host of other players that are common in HA.

IMHO your best use of a W/Rt combo is weapons spells.

Hella Good · Apr 23, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

IMHO your best use of a W/Rt combo is weapons spells.

I agree. Weapon spells are a great way for Warriors and Ranger (and Assassins) to enhance their performance. Now... most likely this will be the case when there is one or two warriors in the group (much like JInsight), not when there is 4 or more when Orders become much more nrg and output efficient. Plus some Weapon spells have annoying conditions (while not under the effect of an Enchantment). But yes, I'm afraid there is no KD/AS to look for in Rt.

Valkyries · Apr 23, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

I agree completely with the last 3 points.

BUT he wasnts to make a W/Rt to use for spells just because the Warrior has more armor.

What Im saying is thats retarded. Plain and simple.

I wasnt trying to be rude before I was trying to help, but seems like he wants to do his own thing so whatever

lightblade · Apr 23, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

...
Energy swapping is only going to bring you so far. If it was so easy to energy swap and get around ESurgers than no one would bring them into high lvl GVG/HA. ...

Aren't the surger suppose to be surging on the monk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corinthian

Why aren't there any builds running Air Spike as primary warriors then?

I said it before, Air Spike and mesmers cast fast and often, therefore draining a lot of energy. But W/E is not impossible, double attune with zealous should provide enough energy to run lightning orb alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

IMHO your best use of a W/Rt combo is weapons spells

Weapon spells enhances damage end when you successfully land a hit, then you'll have to cast it again for 10 energy. Not as efficient...

Hella Good · Apr 23, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Weapon spells enhances damage end when you successfully land a hit, then you'll have to cast it again for 10 energy. Not as efficient...

Brutal Weapon: 10/1/15
Weapon Spell. Give target ally a Brutal Weapon for 5...17 seconds. The bearer's weapon strikes for +5...13 damage as long as the bearer is under no Enchantments.

Wailing Weapon: 10/1/30
Weapon Spell. For 5...10 seconds, target ally has a Wailing Weapon. Whenever the Wailing Weapon strikes an attacking foe, that foe is interrupted.

Resiliant Weapon: 10/2/30
Weapon Spell. For 5...17 seconds, target ally has a Resilient Weapon. While suffering from a Hex or Condition, that ally gains +1...5 Health regeneration and +24 armor.

These are the 3 weapon spells that warriors are most likely to use. Of course there is other, and of course there is "your next attack" ones, but these here are the most likely candidates. Speaking of "your next attack" ones, here is an interesting one:

Nightmare Weapon: 5/1/10
Weapon Spell. For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next successful attack steals up to 5...41 Health.

So... I clearly miss the point where weapon spells are only triggered on the next attack.

swordfisher · Apr 23, 2006, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Going by the numbers in TheEdge 2.0.0 (which are based off the latest info from the FPE), Resilient Weapon actually recharges in 4 seconds, not 30- making it approximately 7.5 times more awesome.

Lady Lozza · Apr 24, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

lightblade, no disrespect intended, but have you ever played an e-denial mesmer in HA? From your post I suspect not.

There was a debate a little while back as to what was the best armour (combo) for mesmers. The funny thing was that most of us were posting about the looks and the way certain armour dyed. A new poster entered the conversation and stated that he was surprised we were discussing appearance over functionality. Our reply was that we were mesmers, functionality wasn't an issue because a good mesmer can compensate for it.

It doesn't matter that mesmers are casting twice as frequently. They have a higher base energy and a higher regen and they have THE BEST energy management in the game. Denial mesmers in HA are rarely out of energy, their largest problem is SKILL recharge time, not lack of energy.

What you are talking about is putting a warrior with 27 energy, a zealous blade, and 1 pip regen on to a field with a denial mesmer. Remember the zealous mod only gives you energy IF YOU HIT. People, particularly monks, kite in HA. While they are running around your possibility of hitting them is reduced significantly - and that isn't including any of the number of skills that exist to further reduce your hit percentage. Energy surge + energy burn + signet of weariness will have your energy down in no time, and you will regen it only slowly, and they don't have to be in melee range to cast any of these spells. Spam mind wrack a couple of times and you will start ot take a lot of damage. Add spirit shakles to the mix and you will NEVER have energy. Even spirit shackles alone will completely own your build. This is why we think that your build is not a good idea at all, one skill will completely kill it.

As for why mesmers love to hit on gale warriors, I explained that before. Warriors like to go after monks, by draining the energy of a warrior means they can't use gale/shock to stop your monks kiting. This way you are protecting your monks, so they are staying alive to heal your team. As I mention previously, because mesmers are casters they can (potentially) e-surge the monks and the drain the warriors without having to move.

Valkyries · Apr 24, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Aren't the surger suppose to be surging on the monk?

I said it before, Air Spike and mesmers cast fast and often, therefore draining a lot of energy. But W/E is not impossible, double attune with zealous should provide enough energy to run lightning orb alone.

Weapon spells enhances damage end when you successfully land a hit, then you'll have to cast it again for 10 energy. Not as efficient...

OMFG!

Im sorry but you have no clue about Mesmers in high lvl GVG at all. NONE!

First off, if you think a Mesmer is just a Monk killer you are sadly mistaken. I go after Monks, Elementalists, Necros, Warriors, you name it. The only thing I probably stay away from is Rangers but thats a different discussion.

The fast casting of Mesmers has NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING to do with their energy management skills. Yes they have a big energy pool, but as Lady Lozza said, they have great skills to gain back energy. If a Mesmer is always out of energy they need to learn to play.

Do you even realize the energy costs for Ritualists?? Most of them are 15 E for anything worth talking about. So what are you going to do... cast 1 spell, and wait for 30 seconds (at your 1-2 pip) so you can cast another spell? Maybe no one has told you this but Warriors are not invincible, even with a high armor class. They can still go down pretty fast.

Lady Lozza (I liked your comments btw) mentioned that Spirit Shackles would completely own your build. I could list about 10 skills that would completely dismantle you. This is why your build is not viable. If you want to play a Rituatist than FFS play a ritualist. If you want to play a Warrior, go W/A to use Factions. W/Rt just does not make sense what so ever for the TYPE of build you want to make. Not saying there is no viable W/Rt builds but not as a spellcaster. I assure you, people who will use W/Rt as a combination will have 6 Warrior skills, 1 Rt skill and a Res, which is the same way a W/E works. They use Gale or now Shock as their only E skill... why?? Because they have no energy pool to justify anything else.

/end rant

natus · Apr 24, 2006, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Speaking of "your next attack" ones, here is an interesting one:
Nightmare Weapon: 5/1/10
Weapon Spell. For 12 seconds, target ally has a Nightmare Weapon. Target ally's next successful attack steals up to 5...41 Health.

So... I clearly miss the point where weapon spells are only triggered on the next attack.

Not that interesting anymore, they changed it so your next attacks damage is reduced by 5...41, but you steal 5...41, before that it was pretty fun, an additional 41 armor-ignoring damage....killing a 55 monk with your wand in RA...yay

and i think it would have been just a bit too powerful in a ranger spike, with ootv up at the same time.

lightblade · Apr 24, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valkyries

...Lady Lozza (I liked your comments btw) mentioned that Spirit Shackles would completely own your build. I could list about 10 skills that would completely dismantle you. ...

And what's the chance that you're bringing that 10 skills of yours?
Besides, I never said this build is 100% bulletproof.
But then again, "Cruel was Daoshen" is one skill that nothing prevent it from doing damage. It's triggered on drop! Even killing the player will still trigger it. 94*6 is enough damage to cause panics.

Hella Good · Apr 24, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Shacks is something Mesmers are very likely to be bringing in Factions. Assassins are extremely vulnerable to Shack nrg denial and to deal with them an e-denial Mesmer is likely to bring do Shackwrack on them and the go back to doing whatever it was he/she was doing. So, do not be surprised if you see a lot of Spirit Shacks in PvP.

Valkyries · Apr 24, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

And what's the chance that you're bringing that 10 skills of yours?
Besides, I never said this build is 100% bulletproof.
But then again, "Cruel was Daoshen" is one skill that nothing prevent it from doing damage. It's triggered on drop! Even killing the player will still trigger it. 94*6 is enough damage to cause panics.

Actually there is an exellent Chance... all you have to do is run into a ESurger and your doomed. As soon as they see you are casting Rit spells they'll burn you once, mind wrack you and you can just watch your life go down faster than a fat kid on a tootsie roll.

Listen. You play however you want to... if you want to make a W/rt with spells do it. Since you refuse to listen to anything anyone says and you just "know" your way is right and EVERYONE else is simply wrong then who are we to argue. I think its great you are trying to come up with new ideas but Im sorry using a Warrior for just defense just isn't the right way to go about it.

Lady Lozza · Apr 25, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

1. Before combat, use Cruel was Daoshen.
2. Appond entering combat, have monk use charge to boost Warrior's speed and to catch enemies off guard.
3. Warriors need to spread out and try to hit as many target as possible
- First to drop the ashes
- Cast Destruction, and Clamer of Souls
- Use the short bow's fast and accurate strong point to quickly recover energy and build adrenaline

1) Ashes slow you down.
2) You can't rely on another character (particularly a MONK) to take an elite and take up a skill place that will benefit only one player, furthermore it will only increase your speed to normal speed, so the other members of your team will still be running faster than you.
3) As soon as the other team sees you with the ashes they will scatter. Remember the kiting I mentioned? Squeeshies know it isn't a good idea to stand in the same area. Then the mesmers will descend and burn your energy, (if someone has SV there goes your adrenaline too) and spamming mindwrack.

/byebye

The problem with the build you have presented is not that one build takes it down, but one skill. It isn't even an uncommon skill.
You asked for feedback, we are giving it to you. We don't think the build will work. There are a number of other ashes spells you could use if you were that set on tanking with ashes, Cruel was is probably the worst of them.

ayanaftw · Apr 25, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

think about it this way:

this is like warriors trying to spam fireball.

and if u were to use a zealous weapon to get energy back a bow is not ur best bet, b/c of the slow fire rate. its better to use a sword or an axe, since u gotta be near by anyways.

also clamour of souls doesnt target enemy, so its random.

lightblade · Apr 25, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Reply to Lady Lozza:
1) One thing I found out in FPE, ashes...unlike other items..DO NOT SLOW YOU DOWN!
2) Monk's Elite "Charge!" will NOT just benefit one player. It has area effect and is cast on all W/Rt
3) That's the whole point about using "Charge!"...Get to them before they scatter. Or...even better..get them before they see you have ashes in your hand. (Color blind beware! You can't tell what kind of ash it is)

Reply to ayanaftw:
fireball's behavior have too much different from Clamor of Souls
Fireball's effect depend on enemy's position, which you cannot control. It is also a projectile, meaning enemy can dodge it.
Clamor of Soul's effect depend on enemy's position AND your own position, that is something you can control

The reason I choose bow over sword/axe is because enemies are not totem poles, they WILL run. You'll end up chasing them and not getting any energy.

Lady Lozza · Apr 26, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

So you expect a MONK, to NOT ONLY heal you but also sacrifice one of their better spells for charge (minimum time only), which (whether ashes slow you down or not) will not work?

Let me take you through the first round match in HA. I play monk there frequently. I know how to kite. There are a good percentage of monks there who are probably better than me.
Timer starts, I head out of the team area, behind the rest of my team, then I back up slightly towards the wall away from the other squeeshies but IN CASTING RANGE. The team waits and sees what the other team is doing. If it is IWAY healer squeeshies head back into team area and the rest of the team lines up on stairs to body block them. Keeping an eye out for MS. Interrupt if possible, or back up after it has been cast.
Now when it isn't IWAY I spend my time running around, keeping clear of the other monks because I don't want to be a tempting target for any AoE spells. This works wonderfully because it makes me rather difficult to hit, and if I do get hit, well there is nothing like healing touch to fix that little problem.

The point is that half decent monks (and squeeshies) are kiting before the match starts. It is what keeps us alive. It doesn't MATTER what type the ashes are, because there are several ashes that do damage the team will split as soon as they see you casting the spell (or carrying the thing). Sprint/charge/speed boost WILL NOT HELP YOU. Take yourself to Isles and see how close the team has to be for "nearby" and hopefully you will realise that the time it takes for you to charge across the battlefield is more than long enough for the team to scatter sufficiently so that the ashes do minimal (if any) damage.

FYI, a good ranger or blood spike wil have you down before you are even half way, completely negating the potential use of the ashes anyway. At best you will be able to take down a completely unranked VIM team (but you will have DP) and VIM isn't so common that you can farm fame off your suggested build.

Valkyries · Apr 26, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

So you expect a MONK, to NOT ONLY heal you but also sacrifice one of their better spells for charge (minimum time only), which (whether ashes slow you down or not) will not work?

Let me take you through the first round match in HA. I play monk there frequently. I know how to kite. There are a good percentage of monks there who are probably better than me.
Timer starts, I head out of the team area, behind the rest of my team, then I back up slightly towards the wall away from the other squeeshies but IN CASTING RANGE. The team waits and sees what the other team is doing. If it is IWAY healer squeeshies head back into team area and the rest of the team lines up on stairs to body block them. Keeping an eye out for MS. Interrupt if possible, or back up after it has been cast.
Now when it isn't IWAY I spend my time running around, keeping clear of the other monks because I don't want to be a tempting target for any AoE spells. This works wonderfully because it makes me rather difficult to hit, and if I do get hit, well there is nothing like healing touch to fix that little problem.

The point is that half decent monks (and squeeshies) are kiting before the match starts. It is what keeps us alive. It doesn't MATTER what type the ashes are, because there are several ashes that do damage the team will split as soon as they see you casting the spell (or carrying the thing). Sprint/charge/speed boost WILL NOT HELP YOU. Take yourself to Isles and see how close the team has to be for "nearby" and hopefully you will realise that the time it takes for you to charge across the battlefield is more than long enough for the team to scatter sufficiently so that the ashes do minimal (if any) damage.

FYI, a good ranger or blood spike wil have you down before you are even half way, completely negating the potential use of the ashes anyway. At best you will be able to take down a completely unranked VIM team (but you will have DP) and VIM isn't so common that you can farm fame off your suggested build.

QFT

I don't know why you guys are still trying. Obviously this guy is the man at PVP and his build can do no wrong. Sorry for my rude flame but every single person who replies here you have some sort of half-assed reason why your build is superior. The fact of the matter is Monks can kite, ESurgers will wreck you, Ranger Spikes will kill you before you step even close to them, Blood Spikes will do the same, Warriors with REAL Warrior skills will smash your face in, do you get the point? Im sorry its just not viable but hey you paid your 50$ or whatever it was to buy the game. Play it the way you want. Just don't think or try to justify that this build you have here is going to be the next coming of God to PVP because its not. Have fun in RA!

Wyrmslayer · Apr 27, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Instead of this pointless discussion; let the guy try the build for christs sake.
He'll figure it out the weaknesses first hand... or blame his team for not executing the build properly.

Anyway... this is getting nowhere.

Sidrakket · Apr 27, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

You guys are all wrong and right at the same time.

This build will do what its intended to do beautifuly.

What its intended to do is not realy worth doing, however=p

OneArmedScissor · Apr 27, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

This build is a joke, right? Please say yes.